From VR Training to Real-World Success in the Skilled Trades with Bharani Rajakumar

Bharani Rajakumar [: 00:00:00

Is a story of a gentleman who was in prison. I think he was sentenced to something like 60 years, but he got out a little bit early. Prior to getting out while he was in prison, he saw people with the headset on, and he was kind of like, what are those folks doing? And then he found out, you know, they're doing virtual reality. They're training for a job so that when they finish their sentence, they can be employable. Raised his hands that he could do it, and he ended up learning his skill, you know, while he was in prison. But he got out, and then he went across the street and worked at the manufacturing company across the street from where he served about 30 years.

Andrew Brown [: 00:00:40

Hi, I'm Andrew Brown. You're listening to the Lost star of the skilled trades podcast, a show that shines the spotlight on careers in the skilled trades that are high paying, honorable, rewarding, and fulfilling. The trades are the backbone of the economy that keep us running, and without them, our world would cease to exist. Today we have a special guest, Ronnie Raja Kumar, founder and CEO of transfer. Welcome, Bharani to the show.

Bharani Rajakumar [: 00:01:15

Thank you so much for having you. I'm excited to be here.

Andrew Brown [: 00:01:18

Career expiration in the trades is difficult. I don't truly believe that kids who are sitting down with guidance counselors, and if they have a mechanical ability, they have a technical spark. That counselor is really saying, hey, you know what? Instead of college, maybe a trades path is right for you. Maybe you want to be a plumber, Maybe you want to be a welder. I don't know if that conversation is really happening. And I'm always looking for ways to get kids interested in the trades. The VR experience, your company transfer really sort of sets the tone on career expiration. Tell us a little bit about transfer and sort of the things you're looking to do in the skill trades.

Bharani Rajakumar [: 00:02:04

Yeah. Well, first of all, thanks for having me on the show. Pumped to be here. As a company, we have a mission to help everyone get on a pathway to upward mobility. And the reason that we have that mission is because we're really lucky to live in America. The dream is about, you know, being an optimist and being able to pursue whatever endeavors that you wish. One of the keys to being able to pursue your dreams is to have financial freedom. So we focus on the skill trades because there is a unique opportunity today where, you know, you can get on a career path, trade upward mobility with jobs that pay somewhere between 50 to $100,000 a year, you know, very, very early in your career, and they don't require a four year degree.

Bharani Rajakumar [: 00:02:53

You know, you don't have to take on student loan debt. That's a really, really great place to start. You know, I think one of the things I learned early on is, you know, your first job is not going to be your last job. So I actually started my career in fast food, earning a minimum wage before I went on to work in finance and then ultimately, you know, became the CEO of a startup. I think the skilled trades offers a unique opportunity to get millions of people on a pathway to upward mobility.

Andrew Brown [: 00:03:26

It's not for everybody, and I'm not going to sugarcoat it to everybody who's listening. It's hard work. It really is hard work. Sometimes being in the skilled trades, it's, you know, working in the elements. Sometimes you're working all different locations. You could be a lineman in a bucket truck and there was just an aftermath of a hurricane or you're working in the wind, or you're working in the streets, or you're working in plumbing, you're working residential, commercial. It's not, quote unquote, an easy path and it's not for everybody. I went to college for four years and the University of Rhode island and I always say that I came out more lost out of school than when I was in school.

Andrew Brown [: 00:04:04

And I was never given a path and I was never given a choice. It was just go to college, get a four year degree, go get a job. I feel like a lot of kids just don't have that opportunity where the trades, you know, go back a handful of years ago. The trades weren't always put in the best light. They always had the old adage of that it's just option B for kids that don't do well in school. They can always be a plumber, electrician or a welder, but that's not really the case. And some of these kids are making a lot of money. A hundred plus thousand dollars.

Andrew Brown [: 00:04:39

I had a post on TikTok yesterday. Within a few hours it had over a hundred thousand views. I think five, six thousand likes and people were talking about how much money they make in the trades. Do you push back on that when somebody says, well, you can't really make a living in the trades, that you can't do well.

Bharani Rajakumar [: 00:04:58

Things are changing rapidly. I think there was a view by many who kind of lived in this period when jobs were outsourced to other countries and they saw, you know, relatives, loved ones, just careers vanish up in smoke. So yeah, maybe some people do have this view. It's an unstable pathway. But you know, things have changed over the last few years. You know, people want to see manufacturing come back to America and so there's more demand for these trades. There's also been a really big macroeconomic trend where folks are retiring to the tune of about 11,000 people per day. And these are folks who used to do not just the skilled trades, but I would say even, you know, jobs in healthcare like nursing.

Bharani Rajakumar [: 00:05:45

And so that creates this unique opportunity where there's a demand. And so if there's demand, that necessarily means that like there's going to be opportunity. But one thing I wanted to highlight that you talked about that that was really interesting. You know, there's perception and then there's reality. While people may have this perception that the skill trade doesn't offer, you know, pathways, here's something to consider. If you were to go to, you know, a lot of places, ask students or even adult learners, what do they want to be. There are two answers that come up a lot. One is social media influencer like yourself, they want to be you.

Bharani Rajakumar [: 00:06:29

A second one is they want to be a business owner also like you. Right? And so guess what, like the skill trades actually gives you a pathway to do that. You know, there's a really interesting article written in the Wall Street Journal which talked about how people who built their skilled trades businesses, those businesses are now being acquired by private equity firms. You know, young people who are going into the skilled trades, particularly like, let's say women for example, because the skilled trades used to be like very male dominated industry, they're blazing a trail, but they're also posting about it on social media and raising awareness for the possibility. So there is a way for you to, you know, have your cake and eat it too, if you're willing to kind of be adventurous and see what's out there for you.

Andrew Brown [: 00:07:15

I do think that a lot of kids obviously look at that social media path and they see the Mr. Beast and they see the top influencers that are doing extremely well. Of course that takes a lot of work. Mr. Beast didn't just kind of start yesterday. He's been doing this for years and years and years and took him a long time. So I do think kids look maybe at that path. It's much easier.

Andrew Brown [: 00:07:36

I don't have to go into the trades, I don't have to get dirty. The other misconception here is that, you know, by 45, 50, you've been doing this for 20 odd years, you're just going to be in bad shape. Meanwhile, on the flip side, a lot of the tradespeople, ironworkers, they're in really good shape. It keeps them in shape. There was an article for a woman who is a turbine technician. She climbs those towers every other day. She makes about $73,000 a year and she's got like four or five kids. I was just in awe that the work that she does, but it's all that climbing the ladder, it keeps her in shape, but she's doing great stuff that she.

Andrew Brown [: 00:08:16

Normally she wouldn't be able to get into, let's say, another career. And she has this opportunity. There's so many. I mean, I can spend the next hour just chewing your ear off. All the people, women, men in the trades who are doing extremely well and are showcasing this on social media, I think. So social media, really, over the last handful of years, it shows a day in the life of a welder, an electrician, a plumber, someone an H vac. It gets kids excited. It's possible they're seeing the opportunity to make over six figures.

Andrew Brown [: 00:08:50

That wasn't the case years ago. So I think it's in a much better light. Also, the Wall Street Journal said that Gen Z is the next tool belt generation. I say it's coined. It's exciting times, I think, to be in the trades.

Bharani Rajakumar [: 00:09:05

Yeah, I agree. I just want to kind of like follow up on two things that you said. You know, you're talking about Mr. Beast, and people want to go into social media, but it's hard work. What's interesting about, you know, some of the people that are going into the skilled trades and then posting on social media is it is hard work, but it's your work like you own it. You know, whether you're being a welder or electrician or you're in construction, or you're climbing the line towers, or you're coming in after a disaster and setting up electricity or broadband like you own that work. There is fulfillment, there is joy in doing that. So what I've found, and maybe I'm just very biased about this, but would love to get your feedback, is like, people don't mind working hard when they've got ownership over what they work, when they feel like they're being treated fairly and that their work is valued.

Andrew Brown [: 00:09:55

I do agree to that. And there is something about that sense of fulfillment in the trades. You don't necessarily get in other pathways. I've personally never met an unhappy trades person who didn't get excited when they said, I built that bridge, I built that tunnel, I built that building I built a school for education. There's something about that sense of fulfillment that you fix something. When my boiler went down and I didn't have heat and we were freezing, and I'm usually technical and I try to figure things out in my own house. I draw a line somewhere and I need to bring in the experts. But when he got the heat back on, I was excited.

Andrew Brown [: 00:10:35

He had a smile on his face and he saved the day. There's something about that fulfillment that you don't normally get with other avenues about working with your hands.

Bharani Rajakumar [: 00:10:44

You get to see the impact directly. And then there was something else that you mentioned. You're talking about folks earning 75k a year. We focus on the skilled trades because we think it's a great channel to help everyone get on a pathway to upward mobility. But I've learned so much about the trades since working with a variety of states and companies around the country. One thing that shocked me in a good way was speaking with folks who joined an apprenticeship program with the elevator union as early as like 19, and then, you know, stayed with it. You know, folks who are now retiring, you know, around 55 to 60 years of age, they are retiring, they've got vacation homes, cars that they wanted to buy, and so they're doing very well. You know, they're retiring with, you know, because they got benefits and all that kind of stuff.

Bharani Rajakumar [: 00:11:35

With seven figures looking forward to being able to do what they want. Most people don't equate that with the skill trades. They kind of equate what you were talking about, like back breaking work, you know, smokestacks and steel mills. And I think what's important to pay attention to is how are the jobs changing? You know, I've been to some of these automotive plants, for example, and the jobs have changed. Now you have a job called like a robot doctor, where you are fixing these robots that are extremely high tech. I mean, you go into some of these automotive factories today, they are the cleanest facilities you've ever seen in your life. 90% of the work is roboticized. It's probably a good idea to kind of suspend judgment until you get to see it for yourself as a company.

Bharani Rajakumar [: 00:12:27

That's one of the things that we do is we offer this experience called career exploration. You can actually put on the headset and you can try, you know, what is it like to climb to the top of a broadband tower? What's it like to be a nurse helping with knee surgery? What's it like to work in construction, become an electrician, what's it like to be a robot doctor. And what is still really powerful about the economy that we're in. You know, 60% of jobs in America do not require a four year degree. And I think that's something that like is probably not always at the front of people's minds because maybe for the last 40 years the message that they've heard the most often is hey, if you don't get a four year degree, you know, you're on a track to nowhere. I think what's really cool about the American economy is that that's not necessarily true.

Andrew Brown [: 00:13:12

We can myth bust that for the next 20 minutes of that. There are pathways or at least careers in the trades that you can climb the ladder of success if you put the time, energy behind it, that you can do extremely well if you become the best in your trade or you become entrepreneurial and you own your own business one day. There are many different opportunities, just how far you want to take it. I do think the original person that put this on the map was Mike Rowe in Dirty Jobs back in the day. And I used to watch his show and actually we, my foundation, Skilled Trades Advisory Council was with him in Nashville. So he spoke with one of the members of my foundation who interviewed him on stage. And we were in front of three, three thousand people. So I got to spend a little bit of time with Mike Rowe, took a picture with him, but he's doing wonderful things.

Andrew Brown [: 00:14:03

He put really the trades on the forefront and he's really sort of the top person out there and he's doing great work out there. I wanted to pivot for a quick second because you were talking about transfer and being alignment. I was at the SkillsUSA competition down in Atlanta this past summer. For the people who don't know about SkillsUSA, they take about 6,500 kids. The best. The best. It's the Olympics down there. And they compete in welding, in I believe, carpentry, the robotics, a lot of different trades.

Andrew Brown [: 00:14:39

And when they win, it's like a badge of honor. And they either get a scholarship or they get free stuff where they can buy tools from big retailers, that type of stuff. But it sets you up for success in your career in, in a future to work for a future company.

Bharani Rajakumar [: 00:14:55

Oh, you can get hired right after the competition.

Andrew Brown [: 00:14:57

Exactly. And I'm supporting with them and I'm going to be a judge there. And I'm working with them with the New York chapter and working with them and trying to support some of these competitions locally. I happened to be walking around and I did see the transfer booth and I had a chance to put on the goggles. All of a sudden I was in a world where I was alignment. I had to climb a tower, whether it was 40 or 50ft up. And I literally had to use my hands. Took me a little bit, you know, minute or so.

Andrew Brown [: 00:15:30

I think it's an age thing. I don't want to say I'm outdated on how to use technology, but took me, you know, a few moments to get my bearings. But now I'm all of a sudden I am on top of a tower. I'm about 50ft up, I'm looking like this and I'm like, whoa. I feel like I'm really here. I need to get the power back on. And I had to swap out a couple of things to fix a transformer. And I felt like I was there.

Andrew Brown [: 00:15:55

I also went down, I was in a factory. There was conveyor belt, I guess the conveyor belt went down and there's packages flying over the place. And I had to weld something, how to put the helmet on, how to take the torch, and I had to weld something. I was immersed in this virtual world and I didn't have to go obviously physically do it because I've never done it personally, but it felt real. Tell me about that. Tell me how does it work with transfer? How do you make it so real?

Bharani Rajakumar [: 00:16:23

It's a really fun part of the job. So we use XR as a medium. The experience you're describing was virtual reality. Virtual reality has just come a long way in the last decade, I would say, you know, five years ago when we launched our first product, a lot of people were really skeptical, not willing to believe that you could train somebody in VR. And today it's fairly well accepted that it's a very engaging medium. You know, everything is in 3D, as you would normally see in your day to day life. And you can use your hands to interact with objects, which just kind of adds to the realism, to the presence of it all. And I'll tell you something, even though what we have today is just leaps and bounds better than five years ago, I mean, it's nothing compared to the next five years.

Bharani Rajakumar [: 00:17:10

The things that are in R and D are wildly engaging. You know, you wouldn't even believe it that you were learning, but you are. We have an efficacy team, we have a learning intelligence team that actually runs studies and asks people how long did they feel that they were in virtual reality? And they'll often underestimate It Right, because they'll say, oh, you know, I think I was in there for X amount of time. The reality is they were in there for, you know, 2 or 3x the amount of time because they're just enjoying themselves. There's a lot of technological advancements such as AI that are going to make the interactivity of the learning experience, you know, more compelling than it's ever been before. So we're excited about that. We're also excited for the big number of people that are coming out, you know, like yourself, that are supporting this conversation and you know, making it less taboo to have a conversation about alternative pathways. You mentioned micro, which, you know, I agree, has just done so much for raising awareness for what's out there that people might have not considered before.

Bharani Rajakumar [: 00:18:15

We partnered with an individual by the name of Chris Gardner. So I don't know if you've seen this movie called the Pursuit of Happiness. He is a, another kind of living, breathing embodiment of the fact that you can be successful even if you don't go get a four year degree. So if you've seen the movie, then you kind of know that at one point he was, he was homeless, he's part of our armed services, went on to have a professional life that was very successful. You mentioned SkillsUSA. We're super excited to share that in 2025 we are partnering with SkillsUSA to help build that pipeline of people, you know, going into the trades and also competing in that competition that you mentioned. Because one of the most powerful things I think about Skills is that all the major manufacturing companies and employers in the skill trades support Skills usa and so they're going to be there, they're going to be able to find out about you and extend that opportunity directly.

Andrew Brown [: 00:19:13

That is super great to hear that you're going to be working with them sort of moving forward. And I think this is the, at least the first step for somebody who's interested in, I guess, back up for a second. I guess somebody who's maybe thinking about the trades but doesn't exactly know which trade they want to go in. Because even last night somebody asked me online, like I'm looking at electrician, H Vac or plumbing, what should I do? Like, you know, that's three different trades that you want to go into. If you use the VR experience that you can be something doing something in H Vac or doing something in welding, you can sort of get a feeling to start getting your feet wet in that path in a way that it's a safe environment. Right. You're doing this. I do have a question.

Andrew Brown [: 00:20:01

Can you get certified if you go through all the segments in a certain area? So if it's something in welding or maybe it's something in plumbing, can you be certified or does it help you if you're looking for a job and that you've kind of gone through sort of this program or career expiration and transfer?

Bharani Rajakumar [: 00:20:21

Our partners include high schools, two year colleges, unemployment offices, nonprofits. And so it's usually our partners that can provide the credential and certification. Like we are creating pre employment programs that'll be kind of industry approved. That's for next year for sure. Yes. Like there are kind of at least for the entry level skills, the fundamental skills. There are national standards that already exist, like you know, people do OSHA training or you might get a certification from NCCR and things like that. So that stuff does exist.

Bharani Rajakumar [: 00:20:51

And apprenticeship programs are directly aligned with these kind of credentials. But I wanted to kind of just build upon what you were saying, where you got this question from an individual about how to select what trade to go into. And I think yeah, career exploration is a great way to try a variety of options. But then the other thing to think about is like, what's the demand for that trade in your area? Because you know, the country is huge. You know, like residential construction may be booming in one state, meanwhile in another state, like what's really needed is something more aligned with the line workers, for instance, or elevator maintenance, you know, like. So I would definitely give some thought into, you know, what's in demand, what the next kind of like five years looks like. And then I think the other kind of thing to consider is what kind of like how does that match with your day to day priorities? Because if you are interested, for example, in becoming a business owner, there might be certain verticals that lend themselves to that a little bit more than others.

Andrew Brown [: 00:21:49

In this world of VR, there are other players who do, I guess, similar type of solutions as well. There's interplay learning. We recently had on the podcast the CEO of skillcat, which is an app based version which you can learn, but you're on your phone and it's a minimal amount. I think it's like $10 a month. And you can go down the H Vac route, you can go down the plumbing route, you can get basic certifications. Is the transfer program if an individual wanted to use it, can an individual use it? Or you have to use it at a trade school or use it where somebody has the technologies bought into the technology, how do you make it? Anybody can use the technology. Is it cheap enough? I guess that's really the question.

Bharani Rajakumar [: 00:22:39

It's a great question. So the reason we partner with high schools, two year colleges, unemployment officers and nonprofits is, you know, they have a mission of training people and they also have a budget. And so that way, you know, they can help fund the exploration and the training on behalf of those that are interested. So, so that's kind of why we have this, I would say, B2G kind of model where we partner closely with the government to help support the needs of the local workforces. I would say if we are currently not in your region, your county, we have a LinkedIn page that gets monitored every single day. It's just transferring on LinkedIn. You should message us and we will absolutely love to send somebody to your part of the country and kind of like raise awareness and help find, find out how we can make it work. The reason we kind of have that model, by the way, is because a lot of the target population that we work with, they may or may not have the ability to pay for the training on their own.

Bharani Rajakumar [: 00:23:37

That's kind of why we have that model where we've got other people that have a vested interest in helping support the training in their community.

Andrew Brown [: 00:23:44

How do you keep up and up on. Obviously there's different requirements in different states. Like how do you keep up and up on that in the changes? Because sometimes it drastically changes how things are done in certain trades. How do you keep up and up on that?

Bharani Rajakumar [: 00:24:01

We visit employers, we work with employers. Like, I've got video footage that I could show you from my phone where tons and tons of manufacturing facilities and things like that, and everything that we do is employer driven. So going back to what you were saying about how realistic it looks and feels and things like that, it's the technology is one component of it. The other component of it is actually having these conversations with employers to understand what good looks like. Because our whole mission is we tell them, like, look, we want people to be able to come in here, blow the doors off of this interview. So we have to prepare them. So what are you going to ask them? What are they going to need to be able to do when they come meet you for the first time. And that's where we're able to create this experience that mirrors what's going to happen in the interview process or when you get on the site.

Bharani Rajakumar [: 00:24:48

One of the stories that really kind of took my breath away is a story of a gentleman who was in prison, I think he was sentenced to something like 60 years. But he got out a little bit early. Prior to getting out while he was in prison, he saw people with the headset on and he was kind of like, what are those folks doing? And then he found out how, you know, they're doing virtual reality. They're training for a job so that when they finish their sentence they can be employable. Raised his hands that he could do it. And he ended up learning a skill, you know, while he was in prison. But he got out and then he went across the street and worked at the manufacturing company across the street from where he served about 30 years. And what was powerful about that is he said, look, you know, I was able to come in here and have a successful interview and get this job because I had already done it before in the simulation, so I was prepared.

Bharani Rajakumar [: 00:25:40

And I think he was just very surprised at like what he was doing in real life was kind of like what he had already trained for. And that was a perfect scenario of what we were trying to achieve. And so it's always wonderful when you hear those stories.

Andrew Brown [: 00:25:52

I love success stories. I love hearing those journeys. Do you have any success stories of women who have joined the trades who went through sort of the VR experience And you know, maybe it wasn't their path, but after going through some of the segments, they decided to go through a trades path.

Bharani Rajakumar [: 00:26:13

Absolutely. So we started in Alabama, even though we are headquartered in New York City. Our very first customer was the Alabama Industrial Department of Training. They were training people for jobs at Lockheed Martin. That initial coordinate of, let's say 20 people, you know, had about five folks who were women. And then separately we worked with a two year college who had a student. Woman was a single parent mom. This is actually during COVID she had to learn a skill to get employment.

Bharani Rajakumar [: 00:26:46

And what she learned is she learned the skillset to become a diesel mechanic. And so you wouldn't necessarily think that like, oh, you know, hey, this is an obvious choice for this person. But like, first of all, the diesel technicians were in demand where she was. And so that's why the training was offered for that. So she finished the training, ended up going into the career to become a diesel mechanic, take care of herself and her daughter. So what is really kind of interesting about the opportunity here is employers want to hire folks regardless of their gender, you know, what they look like or any of that stuff. Like if you can demonstrate that you've got the skills and you can add value, you're going to be Hired.

Andrew Brown [: 00:27:29

Yeah, it's not even just the tech side. It's also the soft skills as well, like the little things like showing up on time or staying off your cell phone. A lot of employers look for that. I mean, it's, you would think it's just basic stuff. That stuff is not always sort of followed. One of the other things I do see on social media is people can't get jobs that companies are looking for X amount of years of experience. Oh, you need to have three, four years experience. But I'm, I just started, I can't even get in to the company because they want experienced welders, they want experienced plumbers.

Andrew Brown [: 00:28:04

Would transfer. Would you be able to to some degree train somebody or at least show that company that you've gone through these segments of whatever, welding, or if it's H Vac, would you be more desirable to that company if you sort of went through that process instead of the company saying, well, you have no experience, we want somebody with more experience.

Bharani Rajakumar [: 00:28:25

So that is why, you know, what we're building, we call the classroom to career pathway. And so that's why we partner with the folks that we partner with because it helps kind of de risk the entire process. Right. So if you're an employer, naturally you're kind of skeptical. Like you get a ton of resumes, you have no idea what people's intentions are, who's who and what's what. When our partners are able to say, like, no, look, let us show you the commitment. Like this person actually went through career exploration, they opted in to this pathway, they completed the training, they got the certification. Now all of a sudden, like you have some credibility that you've committed, you've made a commitment that makes you more attractive to the employer.

Bharani Rajakumar [: 00:29:04

And I hear what you're saying with respect to, you know, some employers want to see, you know, that you've had years of experience. But I will say when you can come through a well defined program that employers already trust, they're willing to take a bet on folks who come out of a program that they already are familiar with.

Andrew Brown [: 00:29:20

I do agree with that. If they put the time into it and they go through that VR experience and they do train a little bit, they'd be more opt or the company would be more opt to maybe take them on, even though that they don't have the years of experience, but they've worked in to some degree that environment. So I think it's extremely important, especially the VR world, that it really just gives somebody one if it's career Expiration. Someone doesn't know what they want to do or if they know what they want to do, but they want to experience it in a gamified world. It sort of sets them up for a real world possibility to go down that path. I think it's definitely needed and I think it's definitely something that will be sort of the future and I'd like to see where it goes. You know, with the next handful of years, it's only going to get better.

Bharani Rajakumar [: 00:30:09

It'S going to expand beyond VR. So we have some exciting stuff that we're experimenting with in R and D right now with augmented reality. And then, you know, like I was sharing before, like, I think the AI capabilities that are available today are just leaps and bounds better than they were two years ago. It's going to be a lot of fun, like spatial computing, xr AI. Like all these things together are going to make for a really powerful learning experience and immersive experience.

Andrew Brown [: 00:30:38

Yeah, I'm excited to see what comes out in the next year or so in that realm.

Speaker C [: 00:30:46

Now, the tools of the trade.

Andrew Brown [: 00:30:49

Rihanna, this has been an amazing conversation, but before we leave the studio today, what is one of your special tools of the trade advice you would give to someone looking to build a successful career in the skilled trades, especially in today's technology driven world?

Bharani Rajakumar [: 00:31:07

You know, I would say think of your career over time. Your first job is not going to be your last job, but what's really important is that you learn something, that you get something out of it that you can then use in your next role. It's super common these days for people to have five, 10 roles, different roles, different titles. And as long as you feel like you're learning something new, you're going to keep advancing. Like have confidence that if you are learning new things and you're adding value, like you're going to be able to, to have the success that you want to have. I mean, we still live, in my opinion, in the greatest country in the world and anything's possible, but you got to be willing to put in the effort.

Andrew Brown [: 00:31:50

That's great advice. Learning something new and even learning something new every day can help you with your career in the future. And it's about putting the time, effort into whatever you're going to be. So if you're going to be the best plumber, well, you got to put a lot of time into that. If you want to be the best welder, you got to put time to that. If you want to transition from the field into entrepreneurship, that's a whole nother skillset that you have to learn. So you need to double down and you need to get around people who are successful, especially in the trades, who maybe have been a tradesperson for 25, 30 years that is successful and you want to be like that person, get around people, get a mentor, get around people who are positive in a good headspace that can really sort of mold you into where you want to be. Because you don't have to reinvent the wheel.

Andrew Brown [: 00:32:41

It's been done before. And just get around the right people. It will set you in the right track. Ronnie, if we want to find out more information about transfer, what are some websites that can go to social media?

Bharani Rajakumar [: 00:32:53

We're Most active on LinkedIn. If you were to look up transfer on LinkedIn, you would find us. We monitor our page every single day and would love to have a conversation. You know, like I said, if transfer is not available yet in your region, feel free to ping us. Or if you even see things on our website that you're like, hey, you know, I'd love for you to consider this occupation or that occupation. You know, would love to just continue the conversation and build this thing together.

Andrew Brown [: 00:33:19

Yeah, if you're at SkillsUSA next year, definitely take a look at the transfer. I'm sure you guys will have a bigger segment than last year, but it was super exciting to see it firsthand and to put the goggles on and immerse myself in that world. So really excited to see where it goes in the next few years. Bharani, thanks for being on the show today.

Bharani Rajakumar [: 00:33:39

Thanks for having me and thank you to our listeners.

Andrew Brown [: 00:33:41

If you're looking for a dynamic keynote speaker to elevate your next event, head over to andrewbrown.net and review some of my speaking topics, trades awareness, career exploration, advocacy, and addressing the trade shortage. Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast so you never miss another episode. See you next time.