How to Become an Electrician: Union vs Non-Union Journeys + Apprenticeship Insights w/ Jon Lock

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Attendance is huge, attitude is huge. Having a

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positive mindset, being willing to learn. Obviously when you start out as an

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apprentice, you don't know very much. So being open and

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willing to learn and just hearing what people say, listening more than you're

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talking, don't talk back, obviously, that's just like a huge red

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flag.

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Hi, I'm Andrew Brown. You're listening to the Lost Star of the Skilled Trades

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podcast, a show that shines the spotlight on

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careers in the skilled trades that are high paying, honorable,

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rewarding and fulfilling. The trades are the backbone of the

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economy that keep us running. And without them, our world

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would cease to exist.

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Today we have a special guest, Jon Locke.

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Welcome, Jon, to the show. We need

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80,000 electricians every single year up to

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2030, and that's just to replace the electricians that

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are leaving the industry. For every five that are leaving, only

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two are coming in. Everything is being

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electrified. But the problem is the younger generation

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is not as excited to work with their

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hands. What are we doing wrong? What do we need to do to fix this

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shortage? I think we definitely need to promote the trade. Just know how

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much they pay, take out the stigmatism of like what we do.

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Like just show them exactly what we do through like videos or

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going to like schools and just doing like presentations and stuff like that. Just

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the rundown. I'm a big believer of that, getting in front

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of kids and where they're at. Right. So whether it's school, whether it's

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high school, whether it's a vocational school, it's about sharing the

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benefits of what the trades is all about. Being an electrician

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sort of yourself, are you seeing younger

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guys, sort of, or men or women coming into the trades, are you still

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seeing a shortage out there in your neck of the

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woods? I see plenty of young people still coming in.

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18, 19, 20, just coming in. Out here in the

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Northwest, Washington, Oregon, there's no shortage of people

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trying to get into the electrical trades. As far as union or non

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union, they're maxed out every year.

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Seems like there's hundreds if not thousands of people being turned down

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every year that aren't be able to get in just because of the limited spots.

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I think it's on both sides as far as union and non union goes.

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As far as people not being able to get into apprenticeships,

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just I think there's like maybe 1, 2, 300 spots

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maybe per year as far as new electrical apprentices

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are being accepted in both programs. And I just feel like they're both

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maxed out. If people can't get into the union. They're trying to get into the

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non union. They're really just trying to get into either side just to get started

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and get in the door. There's just not enough spots. What does somebody

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do in that case that they don't get in? And for the limited amount of

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seats and let's just say union for a minute and there's a lot of people

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pro union and then there's some people who are not pro union. What

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do you do in that case? Because I have an extended family member in

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California. He wants to join the union. He was in the corporate world for

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like 15 years and now he wants to be an electrician. He's in his mid-30s,

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has a family and he tried to get in and

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he got it didn't work. Should he reapply at that

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point and if you can't get in then what, what's the next step

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from there? Yeah, there's a few different options. I didn't go through the union

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apprenticeship so it's not really my like most knowledge based on that.

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But I know people do reapply. I think it's like maybe every

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six months or something you can reapply, try to get a better ranking, but also

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you can apply or get in, start as a material

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handler, kind of get familiar with companies with the

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process of like tools, products, kind of how the system works. Get

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out in the field to get some work and then people will also like help

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you ranking out. I believe as far as companies recognizing you and

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stuff to get kind of like a resume going of work history.

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And what sets somebody apart. So if somebody's applying to the unit, is

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it all based on test scores? Is it the interview? Like what is it that

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would set somebody apart? Where somebody might get it versus the next

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person? Yeah, so I believe it's like a overall ranking which

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goes from the interview. Test scores, various

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two or three different things that you get a combined score of and then

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that's just like your overall number and then that's how they rank you

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from least to greatest. So number one being the best.

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And how many of our people apply? 300 maybe would be the

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lowest. Number one being the best would get picked first. Now

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you said you didn't go the union route, did you go off on your own?

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Is it open shop? What did you end up going with?

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When I first joined the trades, I didn't even know there was a non union

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versus union thing going on. So someone just offered me to work

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at their company. Non union I went out and tried it out and I was

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like, yeah, this is fun, I like to do this. So they hired me and

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then like after like four days they told me that I needed to like join

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an apprenticeship school and get my training and stuff like that. So that's what I

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did. I went to a non union training trade school or. Yeah, just kind

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of kept going every week and by the end of it then I got my

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license. Is it for you, are you mostly commercial

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residential or is it a mix of both? I've mostly only

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done commercial. I know a lot of like residential

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just because I've done like big scale like apartments or like assisted living

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homes. So I'm very familiar with like the residential side of it as far as

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like the wiring, the troubleshooting, all the devices and

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installs, but mostly just on a commercial scale. More commercial

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projects like dental offices, movie theaters,

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airports, all of it. Where did the wages

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fall? You know, especially for someone who's apprentice? You know, I get this a lot

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online that I don't want to start in the trades because

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I could make money doing something else and they need to

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raise the wages. But it's understandable when you come into the trades

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that obviously you don't have the experience yet, so you need to start somewhere.

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But as you move on year after year that goes

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up. But it seems to be that the younger generation, especially online, is just like,

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I'm not doing this, I don't want to invest the time on it. What can

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an apprentice expect to make in the first few years?

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Just so people can understand a little bit about

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what they can make and what they get to journeyman level. And from there

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I haven't checked recently, I haven't memorized the numbers, but I know when I started

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I was making like 1251 an hour and then

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that was like 12 years ago. So that was like really far behind. But now

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I believe out here in Washington, Oregon, I think we start out at

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like 16 to $19 an hour and I think union starts at

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$20 an hour. I know non union, you rank up every six months,

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so you get like a two or three dollar an hour raise every six months.

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And in the union it's kind of like every six months and then like

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every year, year and a half after that it jumps up

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pretty significantly. So I'd say you start around 18 to $20

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an hour and then you jump up 23, $25

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an hour within like the first six months. And then after the first year you're

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probably making close to $30 an hour. So it takes a

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little bit of time and a little bit of vested. And it's mostly. Would you

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say it's about four years the apprentice, or is it five years?

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If you go non union, it's four. If you go union, it's five. And then

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from there, if you want to make journeyman status, what kind

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of test do you have to take and what is the prep for something like

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that? How many hours you need to work and put in for where

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you are located? The test is basically

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like 52 questions. I believe for non union, what we did was

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the whole last year of our apprenticeship was just test prep for the

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exam, studying the codebook and stuff like that, doing practice

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tests once a week at school. So you

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get a lot of practice in. So it's not that scary.

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As long as you get your studying in and like

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know the code book, it's not too bad. The union does a better job

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of training people for the test. And I'm not sure if

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their whole last fifth year is test prep as well for

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the test, but I'm sure that it is. But yeah, you just go.

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What I did because I got my hours after I got all my

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schooling hours. So I went to a local college and they had the electrical test

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there. Just go and sit at a computer and take your test,

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bring in your code book or materials that you're using and then

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they mail you your test results. Which was painful to wait like three

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or four weeks to see what your test results were after that. So if you

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have all your work hours, which is 8,000 hours, four or five

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years, that divides out into. So once you get your work hours

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and your school hours, then you're eligible for the test. And most people take that

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test either at school. Someone comes in, brings the test in and

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then you take your test and then they pretty much tell you on the spot.

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So do you remember when you passed the test, what was it like? Oh yeah,

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I do. I will never forget that moment. For me, I already like

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failed the test twice. I feel like we didn't have enough like preparation in

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the non union. Some of the subjects weren't covered. So I

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definitely felt like I was guessing on like the last 20% of the test. So

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I was always like right on the edge of passing. So I was on the

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website, the Oregon license website, just kind of like checking out to see if

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my name was on the list. My name was finally on the list, which meant

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that I knew that I passed. And I, I was on the phone with My

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best friend at the time, this is the loudest I've ever screamed in my entire

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life. And he always joked about like he was gonna go deaf from that

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moment. Yeah, that's gotta be super excited. Cause the prep work that you have to

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put in, and like you said, you didn't pass the first few times. And then

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now it's the third time that you passed. And once you pass, then

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you have your journeyman license at that point. Yep. That's the whole test

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is just giving you your license. So from there, once you get

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your journeyman status from being apprentice, where does the pay go from

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there? At the time non union, I was making, I

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think I was at like $28 an hour at my last term of my

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apprenticeship. As soon as I got my journeyman license, I got like a $5 raise,

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I believe. And that's something that the union versus non union,

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which is bad for the non union. You have to negotiate your own wages.

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So I negotiated for a $5 raise when I got my license. If I was

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in the union, that would have been automatic. I wouldn't even

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have to talk to anyone. I would have just automatically gotten the raise. Or for

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union. Right now, I think you get like 40 or $50 an hour at the

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last term of an apprentice. And then when you get your journeyman license, you get

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like 10 or 15 raise. It's crazy. So union is definitely a

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better route as far as higher wages go. I think a lot of people do

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want to go union and like you said, they're either being shut out, there's not

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enough space in there. And some people say they need to

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know somebody to get in. And it's. You hear all different stories,

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but once you're in, you're in. And those wages are solid. I

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assume that the amount of work that you get through the union, it's solid. On

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top of the pension that you're getting is great. And it's just

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you're a part of the. Obviously the brotherhood as well, which is great.

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Not everybody can get in. And it's. I guess it could be a little bit

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frustrating if, you know, you applied a couple of times. Can you keep

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applying to the union or is there like a point like three, four times,

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you can't really apply again. Is there like a cutoff? I have never heard that

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there's a cutoff, but I know like, as an apprentice, you can like try to

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get in or switch over if you haven't started. You can try to

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apply for the union, but like kind of once you're in the non union, you

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probably just want to stay and finish it. It's going to be easier just not

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to switch over and like retake classes or whatnot. But once you have

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your journeyman license, once you pass your test as a journeyman, then

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you can just automatically switch over to the union. You don't have to do anything.

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I always thought there was like, oh, you have to take a test, you have

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to do all this stuff. To get into the union. All I had to do

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was I just emailed the people and within a week they accepted me and I

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was already like started working and stuff. So it was a really easy

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process. Just a lot of things I didn't know that I would have switched

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over a long time ago if I had known. We bring up a good point.

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There is a lot of unknown there, you know, especially if you're

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just not around other people who are in the union or just people who

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have been electricians for years and it. I always find that with the career

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exploration, like people who are interested in the trade, whether it's

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electricians or welders or carpenters, there's like this unknown,

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you know, you're not learning it in school, it's not like you're in high school

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and someone's teaching you like if you want to work with your hands some, maybe

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you have a shop teacher of some sort. But I find it's very difficult to

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get that information of the right path. And some people,

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they get analysis paralysis. It's almost like it's. I don't know what to do

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and I give up and maybe I'll just go to college. I feel like there's

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a lot of that because what you said, like you didn't know,

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maybe you just, you know, were around, so does people who were in that

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world. I didn't know anyone, I wasn't friends with anyone that was part of the

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union really until my electrician came along and he found me on

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YouTube and he's a local guy that lives around here and he

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gave me some information and stuff so became friends with him.

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And another one of my non union co workers was kind of telling

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me that I should switch the union and stuff like that. That was about the

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only information that I ever had. So what's been the most exciting job

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that you've ever worked on in the last couple years? It could even be

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obviously recent. What's the most exciting thing that you've ever worked on? Yeah, I

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think the most exciting definitely was the Portland airport that I just worked

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at for the last year. Being a part of like some

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major upgrade that's like making news all

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around the world. And it was like a huge deal to us because we haven't

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had an airport upgrade in a really long time. So being a part of that

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was just like amazing. And everybody, like all my friends know that I work at

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it. So every time they go to the airport they're like looks good or whatever.

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So it's always cool. It is that feeling of accomplishment. I always

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say this with people in the trades when they, somebody who's worked on a bridge

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and they cross the bridge, they'd like to talk about the bridge that they built

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or the building they built or the elevator they put in or

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electrical work that they've done. There's something about that proud moment. And

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every time I do a post on something like that on social, they light

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up and there is that feeling that you were like you said you doing

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airport work, which is highly, highly important and it's something

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to be proud of. Yeah, absolutely. I definitely can relate to that.

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Like every time I go past the building like oh, I worked at that building

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and then like sharing stories and it's always fun to look back at the things

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that you've done and worked on. So and for you when it comes

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to. And I also find what's a little bit difficult too when somebody's just starting

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out, they need the tools. How does someone afford

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those tools? Is it something that you just over time you

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just, you get a little bit of money, you put it towards some of the

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additional tools that you need for your day to day stuff. How does that work

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typically for you? Yeah. So in the non union might

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depend on the company. I know some companies do give you a full set of

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tools right from the get go, which is nice. In the union I believe they

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give you all your hand tools as well. So the non union is

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like some companies will do it, some companies will and then the union will cover

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all your hand tools. So it's really nice, you know, especially. Like you said non

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union and I see this because I'm in the tool business for about 24 years.

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So I see it firsthand. I know how expensive it is, you know, to get

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top quality manufacturers. And it just seems to be a sticking point for

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some people. It's like I don't have the money to pay for this stuff and

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I needed to get the work done. But I can understand on the union side

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obviously or even some companies that will allow you,

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they'll pay for the Tools or they have the tools or the union will give

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you the tools. But for the ones that don't, it's really hard to acquire that

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if you're not making that much money up front. Yeah. And sometimes

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like when you start out, you're kind of just like the grunt

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sometimes. So you'll be just maybe moving material around a lot

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so you won't really need tools like right off the get go sometimes. So you

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can kind of build up a few paychecks and buy some tools as you go.

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So I know there's definitely always a way. But yeah, for some people can

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definitely be a tough spot in that situation. Some people in

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the trades want to own their own business one day. Is there anything for

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you in, in the future that maybe one day that you'll have your

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own shop or place or something? That doesn't

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really interest me unless like the right opportunity came along. Maybe like

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working with a friend or something. I don't have any plans of having a company

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or anything like that. There's nothing wrong with that. It is not for everybody. If

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you find the right place or the you're in the union or if you find,

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you know, an open shop and you're happy there, you could still do very

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well. It just depends which how far you want to take it. I know that

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there's so many opportunities out there. I always feel when I

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talked about the shortage, I know you had said that in your area that people

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are waiting sort of to get in. But overall there is still a

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massive shortage in every single trade. So I know that those opportunities

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are available. And especially in the next couple years

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with all the infrastructure work that we're doing and all the.

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Obviously when it comes to EVs or electrical work or appliances,

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there's just more and more need on the overall

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infrastructure. So the opportunities are definitely out there for

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a young person who's interested in working with their hands. Yeah,

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totally.

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Now, the tools of the trade. This

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has been an amazing conversation. But before we

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leave the studio, we always ask the guests their tools

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of the trade. What are your top three

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qualities that you feel that a new apprentice needs to

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be successful in the electrical trade?

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Top three, I would just say showing up to work on time,

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that's a huge one. If you don't show up to work, some companies will give

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you like a few days. Some people don't tolerate it at all. So

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if you are late or have a bad attendance,

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you're pretty much gone pretty quickly. So attendance is

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huge. Attitude is huge. Having a positive

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mindset being willing to learn. Obviously, when you start out as an

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apprentice, you don't know very much. So being open and

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willing to learn and just hearing what people say, listening more than you're

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talking, don't talk back, obviously, that's just like a huge red

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flag. The third one I would say, I don't know, just

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being willing to admit your mistakes and

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being willing to ask questions and making it seem like you want

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to be there and that you want to know what you're doing and do the

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right work. So you don't realize that just showing up on time,

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it makes a huge impression sometimes. Some people say the

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younger generation, that it's a little bit different, they're a little bit loose, they're on

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their phone and sometimes they show up late. And those are

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basic things that really show somebody who's has their own company

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and somebody comes in, you're new, that you want to be there. Like,

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don't be on your phone, don't be late. If you have to stay late, stay

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late and be a sponge and just be open to learn.

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Yeah, absolutely. Those are the basic things that can make you

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truly, truly successful in the trades. If people want to find out

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more about you, where would they find you? On social.

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Yeah, so my main platform would be YouTube, which is just Daily

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Electrician for Instagram. It's Daily Electrician

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yt pretty much my main two platforms is just YouTube

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and Instagram. So yeah, definitely check out Jon and what he's doing out

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there. Keep up the great work. We need more

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electricians. Jon, thanks for being on the show. Yeah, absolutely.

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Thanks for having me. I appreciate it and thank you to our listeners. If you're

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looking for a dynamic keynote speaker to elevate your next event, head over to

Speaker: 00:19:43

andrewbrown.net and view some of my speaking topics. Trades

Speaker: 00:19:47

awareness, career exploration, advocacy and addressing the trade

Speaker: 00:19:51

shortage. Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast so you never

Speaker: 00:19:55

miss another episode. We'll see you next time.

Speaker: 00:20:00

Thanks for listening to the lost art of the skilled trade. Visit

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us@AndrewBrown.net for more resources and tips.

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Join us next time for real stories and meaningful initiatives

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as we celebrate our. Men and women in the skilled trades and shape

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the future together.