Angela Coldwell on Skilled Trades Careers, Apprenticeships, and Education

Angela Coldwell [: 00:00:00

I think the other is having the conversation with the student about what do you enjoy? And this was good advice I received from a welding professor. And the conversation was, do you want to work inside or outside? On your own or with a team? Where do you enjoy? What do you enjoy the most when you're outside of your school hours, do you want to work with your hands? Where do you kind of see your strengths? And kind of just having those conversations of getting to know the student and ultimately saying, well, do you know what? There are career paths for you.

Andrew Brown [: 00:00:31

Hi. Hi, I'm Andrew Brown. You're listening to the Lost Star of the Skilled Trades Podcast, a show that shines the spotlight on careers in the skilled trades that are high paying, honorable, rewarding and fulfilling. The trades are the backbone of the economy that keep us running, and without them, our world would cease to exist. Today we have a special guest, Angela Coldwell of Honor the Work. Welcome, Angela, to the show.

Angela Coldwell [: 00:01:04

Oh, thank you for having me. It's a pleasure to meet you in person. I have followed you for a long time on LinkedIn and I'm a great supporter and admirer of the work you're doing in the U.S. so congratulations.

Andrew Brown [: 00:01:14

Likewise. And I appreciate the work that you're doing. We're going to get right into it. I have a family member who wants to be an electrician, and he's older, but he's been working in a corporate environment for about 15 years, decided he wants to work with his hands and he wants to be an electrician. I've given him support, people to talk to, electricians to talk to. But we got this talking about what was it like when you went to school and your career expiration, because it was never really spoken about when he was in school about working with his hands. I started thinking about that and I have this conversation quite often with people. You had a similar situation being a teacher, and you had a student named Jordan who wanted to be an electrician.

Andrew Brown [: 00:02:05

I'm going to let you fill in the blanks. When a student came to you and said that I want to work with their hands, how did you respond to that? What happened?

Angela Coldwell [: 00:02:14

It's funny, you know, I was a chemistry and physics teacher, and so I had a lot of posters in my class came up for universities and colleges. And so when I had this very clever student in grade 10 and he said I wanted to become an electrician, I actually was left speechless. I look back at it now and I can laugh at it a little bit now that I was speechless. But I think that as A teacher. I had gone K to 12 and then off to teachers college. And so when he suggested that what ran through my mind is what is similar to this career that I'm familiar with, an electrical engineer was the only thing that came to mind. So that's what I suggested to him. And he was a very smart kid.

Angela Coldwell [: 00:02:49

And he said to me, no, Mrs. Coldwell, I don't want more years in the classroom. I want to work with my hands. And so I left it at that and went home and talked to my husband, who's an engineer, and they thought he'd think it was a good idea. I suggested engineering. He laughed and said, no, if I don't understand the blueprints, I go to the people on the tools and I trust them above anyone else. And I felt terrible. And I realized, oh my goodness, like what.

Angela Coldwell [: 00:03:10

What is the message that I just sent to the student by suggesting a going to a degree program in university? It was completely just showing that I didn't value nor understand the path he wanted that he already knew was a good fit for him. And it was a real eye opener for me. Now, 20 years later, here we are with an organization that's trying to debunk the stigma, but work directly with educators and industry at the same time. Because it was a pretty impactful moment in time where that student just taught me so much about what my blind spots were and what I might have been communicating to other students about what they wanted to do.

Andrew Brown [: 00:03:44

How many Jordans do you think are really out there in similar situations? And this probably goes back a handful of years ago, but even today that there are kids who are good with their hands, they have a technical spark. Is it necessarily spoken about in schools where I feel it's. There's an engine where it's just teachers and guidance counselors saying, well, it's just, where are you going to go to college versus what do you want to do with your hands? That conversation, I don't know if that necessarily happens because I always feel that college is not built for everybody. I went to college and I keep saying this over and over again. I went to college for four years and I was a programmer and I minored in finance and I came out of school more lost out of school than when I was in school. If it was spoken about in school years ago, if I took a shop class, I've always kind of been good with my hands. No one really sat me down and said, hey, look, you know, did you ever consider maybe working with your hands? I feel that conversation is not happening.

Angela Coldwell [: 00:04:42

And I think it isn't happening to the degree it needs to now either. I think that there's this universal kind of North American experience that it doesn't matter where I speak to people across Canada or to our friends to the south, everyone seems to have that experience. And especially if you're kind of someone that's kind of in your 30s or 40s right now, and you are in that kind of window of time that you went to school, I think that there's a lot more students in this demographic than we know. And I think that not only are they the students that perhaps in retrospect, we look back and say they were a quieter student, they took it all in, they were observing. And when they had the opportunity to create something, whether it was a project or what have you, they did a really excellent job. I think there's more students that have an untapped love of these kinds of things and just haven't had the opportunity to really explore it at home or at school. So, you know, we know lots of kids like to build Lego or K'nex, for example. But if they were to know that there was a career path associated with that, what would they be able to do with that knowledge? And sometimes these kids are also your very extroverted kids in your class that are putting their hands up.

Angela Coldwell [: 00:05:43

But often it's also the kids that are the ones that. They have busy heads and they have busy bodies as well, too. So sometimes they can get themselves into trouble. They're maybe coded as the child that's neurodiverse, and it's because of the fact that they need to be doing both things at the same time. So they're very clever kids. And so they can either be kind of mislabeled as the problem student or. Or the one that needs to perhaps leave the room for a period of time because they can't handle that environment. Or it could be the student that's sitting there, and they really could be that extroverted, typical kind of student we think about that raises their hands and is engaged.

Angela Coldwell [: 00:06:14

But they just have never had that experience. We had a grade six student who was a virtual who got to try virtual welding, and she wanted to come back at recess after trying it. In the morning, a college came into one of our partner schools and she loved it so much, and she said, that's it. This is what I want to do now. She's a very good student, but she never had that experience before and didn't even know this was a Career path. So I think that since that answer really is that it could be anybody, I think it's why we really have to expose all children to it, because we just don't know where they're going to find that spark and what they're going to want to pursue. Because I don't think there's a quintessential one kind of person that falls into this. But I certainly think we can overlook students who have that skill set or mislabel them, unfortunately, because of the fact that they're not maybe the students that are the easiest to maybe teach, because of the fact that maybe they're challenging us more, they're more curious, they're more inquisitive, they ask us questions we don't necessarily know, or they're sitting there quietly and observing.

Angela Coldwell [: 00:07:07

And so because there's such a spectrum of behaviors, it really lends itself to the fact that we as teachers have to make sure that we are not just presenting one career path, but a broad set of paths. And we're giving all of our students those opportunities. And not just saying, to the ones that show an aptitude, go into a shop class, but to all kids, why don't you all try a shop class? This is a life skill. Why don't you all try doing something with your hands and let's see if you enjoy it or not. And then after the experience, because experience is transformative, then see what they have to say about it.

Andrew Brown [: 00:07:36

I'm a big believer that people should work with their hands. They should take something, should take a shop class. You should know how to use a drill, read a tape measure, just the basics of basics, or swing a hammer. I just. I feel like a lot of that stuff is. Is lost today. Most kids are relying on technology. What did Jordan end up being?

Angela Coldwell [: 00:07:57

A welder. He stayed in the trade just like so many students, maybe thought one trade and then end up going to a different trade. No different than a lot of students who think engineering and end up in, you know, business or maybe medicine instead. So even within the trades, there's going to be people that shift. And I think it's great that he knew very early on, at 15, that this is what he wanted. And I think that's also a lesson for us as adults and parents. Listen to our children. Let's not expect them to do something that perhaps we want them to do.

Angela Coldwell [: 00:08:23

Especially in this ever changing labor market and this rapid fourth industrial revolution of the skills economy. There's rapid change. Let's listen to what our kids want to do. Let's hear what their possibilities are in terms of where they see the career taking themselves. The more you get into where a skilled trades career can take you, the more a parent realizes, oh my gosh, you could be a business owner, you could work for health and safety, you could go and become a project coordinator, an estimator, you could become a C suite executive, you know, but has all the knowledge of working on a job site. I think it's a really good lesson for all of us perhaps, and myself, you know, as a parent and teacher, to make sure that we really listen to what our kids want and really observe as well before we say something to them too.

Andrew Brown [: 00:09:04

Just using the Jordan example. And it's great that he wants to go and he went into welding. He likes to see the sparks fly. Was his parents open to that career path or did they say, well, maybe for your college degree is a better path. Were you getting pushback?

Angela Coldwell [: 00:09:21

Not at all. So I think one of the things was I was teaching at the time in a rural area, so it was a farming community. And so, you know, typically, if you take a look at communities that are, I live in Ontario now, so northern Ontario has mining. Those are places where there's already a value for working with your hands and that labor. And so when it comes to a lot of these parents, they're very supportive of it. And so I find that it's more when you're looking at some of the larger urban areas, whether it's kids who have never picked up a hammer before because they've never had the chance, maybe kids who live in an apartment or condo building, maybe parents who are both white collar and this will be the first child in the family to go into a trade. I think that that's where there's more reluctance or where there's a societal or cultural expectation as to what the child's going to go into. So maybe they're going to be, you know, in business and law, in medicine, in engineering.

Angela Coldwell [: 00:10:05

And that's kind of what the family's always looked at. And so now when the child's coming and saying, but that doesn't suit me, some parents, I think, are more open to it because they realize that really isn't a good fit with a personality. I'd be curious if your friend or your relative who's been in the career that he's been in for 15 years and is switching to an electrician, was that a choice he made or was that a choice that he felt was societally expected of him and now he's finally realizing 15 years in, I think I maybe have a passion that I always had, but just am finally realizing now. And now I can take the steps towards.

Andrew Brown [: 00:10:36

I think it was for him, it's a burning desire. It's like was always deep down inside it. I feel like some people, you know, deep down inside, but it's not necessarily what everybody else wants. And you kind of get to some degree, you get pressured. You have to go to college and you have to get a degree and you have to work for a large corporation and don't do this and don't do this. And I look at my own kids because I have young kids and I say I want to support them as much as possible. There's only so much influence that you can have and you don't want to push them into something they don't want to do. We've all seen those stories.

Andrew Brown [: 00:11:09

Son or daughter gets pushed into something not happy. I want them to go into something that they're happy with. I do want them to at least explore working with their hands because I think it's such a powerful characteristic today and in the future for where the trade shortage is, where it's going. Hopefully it's starting to come back over time having that skill set. You can do other things with that and on top of it as well. Even if I'm thinking about somebody who asked me something about should I go into the trades knowing that people are losing jobs in tech, somebody asked me in the audience, I said, yeah, you should work with your hands. It's a great option to some degree. It's recession proof.

Andrew Brown [: 00:11:51

You always have work to do. And then the tech side, it's up and down. It's up, down, yes, trades. If there's a recession, yes. People don't do large construction projects or maybe they put things on hold. But there's always things to fix. You can always go into someone's house, you fix someone's H Vac, you can always fix someone's plumbing. There's always work to do.

Andrew Brown [: 00:12:10

So I'm a big believer to at least explore it. And even if you don't go into it, you have those lifelong skills. You can fix things around the house. You know, many times my friends come to me like, I don't know how to fix this thing. Do you know how to fix this thing? Yeah, I know how to fix this thing. They won't even go near anything and thank God that they have people in the trades. And that's a whole nother story time. It takes to get somebody in.

Andrew Brown [: 00:12:34

That's a whole nother episode. I'm like, didn't you ever learn this stuff? No, nobody ever taught me, but at least explore it.

Angela Coldwell [: 00:12:41

No, I completely agree. And I think that they're transferable skills we all learn, you know, like seeing and doing. Right. We're visual learners, but we're also hands on learners just as humans. And so there's so much that we learn by actually going and taking the technical knowledge and seeing. What does this actually look like to practically do? As a teacher, I taught my kids all about electricity, all my students about electricity, and we had built with alligator clips and light bulbs. But it wasn't until two years ago or three years ago that I actually was at an electrical wall and wired it myself. My husband and I have built a house before and we've done concrete forming and insulation and things like that.

Angela Coldwell [: 00:13:11

But as a physics teacher, that was my first exposure and I thought, wow, isn't that silly? Shouldn't I have done this far before this? Shouldn't have done this at the start of my teaching career. And then it would have given me a basis to share that with students as well too. Not just going to electrical engineering, but I would have had the opportunity to say, hey, you know what, you could also be an electrician. And here's how this practical skill that you're learning having to do with electricity, here's how you're going to use it in the real world. I think that's very important.

Andrew Brown [: 00:13:34

Well, what other programs are out there? And I want to come back obviously to what you do, but I know of oyap Ontario Youth Apprenticeship Program. Can you tell the audience a little bit more about that and how that is working in schools? Because I want people to really listen to this because it's a really unique program, been around for a while, but it's been extremely impactful.

Angela Coldwell [: 00:13:55

Yeah. So every province actually across the country has its own apprenticeship program. So in Ontario it's called oyap. In Alberta it's called the RAP program. And so the whole idea is that students either in grade 10 or 11 actually start their apprenticeship. And so they actually are going to go out to an employer, they're going to start starting to gain their hours towards their apprenticeship. So they actually sign a registered training agreement, they're going to start working for their employer. And by the time they're done high school, they often have completed the hours needed for level one training.

Angela Coldwell [: 00:14:25

So in Canada we have between three to five years is the time it takes to complete a Trade. And in there, there's normally three blocks of school that's taken, that is eight to 10 weeks, where you take the technical knowledge at a College. The other 85% of the time you're on the job site. So for kids in the OYAP program, what they do is by the time they get done high school, they actually are often done all of their hours, sorry, on the job up to level one, and then can go off as soon as they graduate high school and go take their level one training. So that basically means they're a good chunk of hours into their journey. Some school districts even have a partnership with a college where they actually complete their level one while in high school. So it means then that when they graduate high school, not only do they graduate with their high school diploma, but they also have completed up to level one. And so now they just have the remaining hours for level 2 and level 3.

Angela Coldwell [: 00:15:10

So the hours on the job site plus the technical background for level 2 and level 3, as a result, when they're done come 21ish 22, if they started in high school, they will be completely done their program. They write their cfq, which is their certificate of qualification, which is a provincial exam, and so long as they score 70% or above, they become a journey person. And so now they are fully ready to now go off and to be a mentor themselves, or they can continue onwards, get more tickets, or that. We even have a program in Canada called the Blue Seal Trade, which you can actually go take business courses and then you can actually become a business owner later on. So it's a fantastic program for students that are aware of it. One of the biggest things we have as well in the nation is that a lot of times parents don't know about the program until maybe grade end of grade 11, beginning of grade 12. So there's years left that are lost in there. And so that's why backing up our overall timeline projection all the way back to elementary school and starting to expose kids there then allows kids to make better choices in junior high if there's a technical option for them to take a technical class, for example, or a trades class.

Angela Coldwell [: 00:16:13

And then when they go to their high school, it gives them the best knowledge because they've had all these years of exposure to decide, well, do I actually want to go take the OYAP program, for example? And if it's not oyap, there's also a dual credit where you can be getting both high school credit as well as college credit at the same time. And then there's also just co op work terms. And in Ontario we have something called a schism specialist high skills major where again you can go out and work in industry and actually get experience. And I think that's something that students really want. We know a lot of students right now in Canada, we have high unemployment amongst our youth. And so getting them into the workforce, getting the network, getting the exposure, that really helps them figure out, well, what do I want to do? And so the OYAP program does this beautifully for us with apprenticeship.

Andrew Brown [: 00:16:53

It's such an opportunity to work with your hands and you're in your, in school. My question is when you come out and you go through this, how old are you when you finish up? So if you started in your high.

Angela Coldwell [: 00:17:04

School years, 21 or 22, so you think about that, you're 21 or 22, you graduate, you have your high school diploma, you are a journey person, you have been paying into pension, you have benefits, you're now making a full salary, you have a network because you've been working in the industry. It's quite remarkable what can occur if you are going to start early on in your journey. But again, a student has to be aware of it and the parents have to be supportive of it as well too. And then an employer has to take a student on as well too. And that's always sometimes a problem also because not all employers want to take on level one individuals because they're green or they think that perhaps if they train them that students then going to go somewhere else. It's unfortunate. I think that if they thought about the fact, the whole idea that if you invest in a person they will want to in return work hard for you as well too. And it's a beautiful cycle that way as opposed to thinking they're going to leave.

Angela Coldwell [: 00:17:55

That might change the philosophy. The hardest thing is just find that placement for the student.

Andrew Brown [: 00:18:00

It's one thing to attract somebody, but to retain them is something else. And I get the whole apprenticeship thing and I get the investment into it. But you can have someone for years and years if you put the time, energy and resources behind them. And I get there's going to be a percentage of people that are going to move on and I look at as a cost of doing business like you try to do the best you can. I know of some apprenticeship programs here in the us Some companies are doing it, it's not cheap or inexpensive to do that. Some of them have people they brought in left, some of them have stayed. But the Ones that have stayed, they invested in, are doing very well in different trades.

Angela Coldwell [: 00:18:37

And then often what happens is that those are individuals that not only can mentor the new apprentices that are coming in, but they're also individuals that later on move into leadership positions. So for example, we know someone that works for a large Korean company. And so he's a VP at a Korean company and he started on the tools and his parents also. He's in his 50s. So this was back, you know, 30 years ago that he said to his parents, I want to go into a trade. And they said, no, why not college? He says, no, I think this is what I want to do. And he never wanted an office job. And so he was working on the tools and just opportunity presented itself and he was fantastic at what he did.

Angela Coldwell [: 00:19:09

And now he is a vp. And so he kind of laughs a little bit and chuckles and he says, no, I do have an office job, but I still get out onto the floor and I still weld and do things occasionally as well too and mentor the next group of people they have working there. But the knowledge that he has to be able to now not only help run this company, but understand the day to day and can also fill in as necessary. There's just a different level, I think, of not only appreciation for him, his employees, but a different way which you run your business because you understand what it takes to actually get, in this case, cranes delivered to a client. You understand the process. And I think that if you can understand that full cycle of everything that happens, from the metal coming in to the entire process to getting it out the door, it just makes you such a better leader. You have so many more skills to offer. If more parents knew those opportunities.

Angela Coldwell [: 00:19:57

You know, a skilled trade is a stepping stone to really wherever you want to take it. And that includes the entrepreneurial pathway of starting your own business. But it also includes that ability to go into diverse roles within your corporation. And I think that that's something that a lot of parents don't think about. And I think a lot of teachers and students don't either. They think often just to use the construction industry. They think it's cold in the wintertime and hot and dirty in the summertime. And they don't realize that there's innovation occurring on site.

Angela Coldwell [: 00:20:20

They think it's just hammers and hard hats. They don't know about anything from the Hilti exoskeleton to spot the dog to VR, AR 3D modeling BIM. The fact that there's digital TW being used. There's a lot of neat stuff happening. It's not spread amongst those who are outside the industry. And I think it's to the detriment, because if people knew the cool places you get to work, how you can work globally with your certification, these things would help to change perceptions about it. I also think if people realize that you need the physics class I took to become an electrician, all of a sudden it's like, okay, hold on a second. Skilled trades are STEM careers.

Angela Coldwell [: 00:20:56

People have such value for STEM careers. They need to realize that these are STEM careers. You're using your hands and your head simultaneously, and you're using all your math and science skills, but you're doing it out of a lab and you're doing it on a job site somewhere. And that's really powerful. I think it would help to debunk some of the thoughts that people have about these careers and counter the stigma that's been around for decades.

Andrew Brown [: 00:21:18

You need to walk in those shoes before you become a business owner. And that is a whole different side. And some people like to stay on the tech side. Some people like to move their way over to entrepreneurship. Some people like to stay in a certain company and work their way up. But you have to start somewhere. You got to start on the tools, you got to start working with your hands and then work your way up. And I've seen a lot of examples where men and women in the field went into entrepreneurship.

Andrew Brown [: 00:21:45

They were lost. It was a huge difference of one thing working in the field, then in a whole nother side of actually running a business and me being having my own business, tool and equipment business. I know it after 24 years. It's not something you can just leap into. What can individuals do who are thinking about making that shift or coming from the field and say, you know what? I do want to run my own business. What are some things that you can suggest to the audience that they can do to try to get an understanding about what it's to be like an entrepreneur?

Angela Coldwell [: 00:22:18

Fortunately, in Canada, we have a blue seal trade program where you take a certain number of hours of business classes. But I think that if not all places, for example, have something that's analogous to that. I think going in and finding at your local community college or local college some business classes going and just reading great business books. There's a lot of people that were accidental entrepreneurs. And what they did is they went and they read some of the best business books that were out there and they learned from individuals who have done it. But I also think going and finding somebody who is in the industry that can help support and mentor you in this journey. So someone else else who, if you're, for example, if you're wanting to become an electrician with your own business, go and find someone who is going to maybe help you with that. So somebody that maybe Is in their 40s or 50s that they've said, yeah, I've started this process myself, and go and ask them, say, go sit down with them for coffee and say, what did you do and how did you start off? And what were the things that you've learned from? What were the lessons learned? What were the things you ended up making mistakes with? And you're like, oh, my goodness, if only I could go back and repeat that or redo that again.

Angela Coldwell [: 00:23:15

And then go to other people who are outside of your particular trade, plumbers, H VAC specialists and so on. Because ultimately you're all setting up a company and you often start off, you know, yourself and maybe one other person. And then I would also say look to your state, see if there is an organization that also helps you with the HR process. Because we have an organization here in Ontario, it's called Support Ontario Youth. And they find the apprentices for the small and medium enterprises. Because something like between 60 and almost 90% of our industry residentially for sure, is small and medium enterprises. So that means that these are less than 20 employees. And so if you have an organization in your state that can help you find your apprentice and then maybe can sign off all the papers, if, for example, there are specific.

Angela Coldwell [: 00:23:59

We have training agreements here in Canada that you have to meet certain criteria and your employer has to be able to sign off on. Is there an organization that's running in your state that's able to help you with that component so that you can focus on the training and then you have somebody who's helping you with all of the other components that have to go into training the apprentice. But it's the communication to whatever your governing body is that is actually making sure the hours are put in and whoever's going to be giving them their certification at the end. So I think a combination of, you know, looking at maybe a college class going and finding a mentor and then also looking at what's available to you within your community and if you're in a union, going and seeing if your union's offering any courses in this as well too. Because I think ultimately people really just need to talk to someone who's done it before and learn from somebody Else that's before. And then also really, you know, go to your local bank and create a really solid business plan or hire someone that can help you do that so that you understand what your cash flow is going to look like and how you're going to have inventory and where you're going to store it all. There's all these pieces that if you talk to other business owners, if you talk to your bank, if you talk about what the investment's going to be to have to start this up, what are all those components? So you have a really good idea of how much this is going to cost before you decide to maybe leave the company you're working for now to step out on your own. And then otherwise, because you're a tradesperson, you could also just start slowly too.

Angela Coldwell [: 00:25:18

You work for a company, but maybe on weekends and evenings you are doing your own billing. You're kind of a one person show. You're going out and doing the work and coming back, starting to build your client base, starting to see what kind of jobs are needed. Is there a niche for you somewhere? It's a lot of just going out, experiencing, talking and finding out what is the right next step for you and when is that right next step going to happen.

Andrew Brown [: 00:25:38

The mentorship piece is extremely important. That can cut a tremendous amount of time. If somebody who's been there and is later on in their years and they're successful, the first thing you gotta do is ask for help. Not everybody is willing to ask for help. It took me time to do that myself, that I wanted to do it myself, I was taught to do it myself, but it held me back. And I'm a big believer of asking for help and getting to somebody who is successful. Because why reinvent the wheel? Most likely somebody has done it before. Try to get around that individual.

Andrew Brown [: 00:26:10

Sometimes you gotta be driven and sometimes that individual, sometimes they won't charge for it, sometimes they will charge for it. But all the support organizations, associations that you've mentioned are there to help you along your journey. So you don't feel kind of like you're lost that you have a support group. And that's extremely important. Being an entrepreneur, it's hard. It's not easy. I'm not going to tell anybody it's easy. It's a very hard journey that not everybody's built for entrepreneurship.

Andrew Brown [: 00:26:40

But if you want it and you want to get it, you have to put the time, energy, you have to get around people who are like minded, positive mindsets and are goal oriented and can Kind of help you because you're going to run into situations in your business. You're going to have highs and lows. It's just what it is. Depending on the economy, something changed. You know, you run into an employee issue, all these things happen. But you need a network, you need good people around you to support you. And I think that's extremely important to have somebody, a mentor in your ecosystem to help you through that. I wanted to pivot over back to when you were a teacher and then you made a shift.

Andrew Brown [: 00:27:23

You went into a completely different aspect of your career. And I want to talk a little bit more about honor the work, how that organization works and what you're doing to help people get into the trades.

Angela Coldwell [: 00:27:36

I was a high school teacher for many years and then I took a pause when our daughters were born. So they're now in grade six and grade four. And during that time we moved a lot from my husband's job. He's always with the same company and he was making his way from being a project coordinator to business development to district manager and then president of a national general contractor. And so along that way I was very fortunate. I got to wear a number of hats. I was a part owner in a company. I was being a mom at home and seeing my children grow up.

Angela Coldwell [: 00:28:03

But also I had been a teacher. And I think that all those things came together. So when we formed on the work, it was really the result of my husband Tim and a friend, Jen and I, having a conversation about, you know, how is it that people don't know these careers exist? And each of us came with a different vantage point. Tim was about, when was the last time a 13 year old was excited about plumbing of becoming a plumber? Jen was exasperated because she said she went to a career fair for universities and the students there didn't know that a business degree or marketing was transferable to the construction industry. So these auxiliary roles, they didn't know they could transfer skills outside of kind of the business world, that they thought it was like banking, for example. And then as a teacher I said, but we don't get workforce data. And so we can't kind of break the cycle of always suggesting college and university programs because we aren't exposed to it ourselves in our K to 12 education. And then when we go back to the classroom after getting our teaching degree, we're missing parts of what other careers look like.

Angela Coldwell [: 00:28:55

So really it was that culmination of really looking at it, what's missing. And then we had read about the fact that early childhood education between ages 5 and 7, that's when children are creating their gender biases. So if between ages 5 and 7 we don't expose girls to carpentry and say boys to becoming a nurse, they don't think it's for them. And by age 8, girls confidence in STEM drops. In fact, a study just came out that 89% of girls feel pressure to behave according to gender stereotypes and cultural norms that just came out this year. So it's like nine out of 10 girls, which is mind boggling. And then by ages 11, 12, so grades five and six, that's when kids and parents are most engaged with careers and career exposure and curious about what they're going to become. And then it drops off in junior high.

Angela Coldwell [: 00:29:38

So really the idea of all of the work came about was advocacy needs to start younger. And normally it starts in junior high or high school. And going back to the whole idea that we need to look upstream. We can't get more people into the trades if they don't know they exist. But we can't get kids excited to take apprenticeship if they're only finding out in high school school. And if there's opportunities in junior high, for example, for them to start to take some of these trades classes or a shop class, then if they don't even know it exists because no one's ever talked to them about it between kindergarten and grade six, then a lot of those kids may not take it or may not realize it leads to a career. They might just think, oh, you know, my grandpa or grandma have a lathe or a woodworking section in their garage. They don't know that it's actually a career they can pursue and in skills that are transferable to other related careers.

Angela Coldwell [: 00:30:24

And so it really was about how do we look at the data, how do we meld these together in a way that's really useful to teachers. And so that's really where it came about. And being a teacher, I went to teachers and said, what would your ideal lesson plan look like? What would it look like if we could really support you? And every one of them told me the same thing. And so honor the work was created ultimately to support elementary educators deliver skilled trades education and construction career education through their curriculum by supporting them with hands on activities and materials and books. And that's really. It came, you know, four years later from our first conversation to me deciding to found the organization and go forward with it. It's just been this ongoing learning cycle from industry and from teachers and then always Bringing it back together and looking at what the research says, the workforce and education.

Andrew Brown [: 00:31:12

And how many schools are you working with across Canada?

Angela Coldwell [: 00:31:15

Yes, we have 910 kits out this year at the moment. So we have about 20 school districts we work with in Ontario and have 110 schools in Alberta. So we just expanded into a new province this year. So we will reach around 32,000 students this year. And it's year two of our pilot, so to speak. So last year it was 60 teachers in 12 school districts in Ontario. We had a lot of success. So now we have school districts coming and saying let's partner.

Angela Coldwell [: 00:31:42

In some cases we have a sponsor. We were able to get some free kits out, otherwise they do purchase them. And then we have construction associations sponsoring in Alberta to get all of those kits out into School. So 810 kits in Alberta alone and we have 100 out right now. They're theirs for them to keep. The idea is that there's lots of non consumables. The consumables are inexpensive. And then year over year the teachers can make edits, changes, grow the program, repeat it.

Angela Coldwell [: 00:32:05

And so that year over year all the students in their grade are being exposed to these careers.

Andrew Brown [: 00:32:10

And what's in the kits?

Angela Coldwell [: 00:32:12

Lesson plans for starters. So the teachers get the lesson plans so that they don't have to come up with any of that themselves. And it's matched the curriculum, which is really key for teachers because we give them a digital copy. All the links to innovation, video interviews with people in the field are all linked in there as well. So it can be anything from hammers, for example, and finishing nails and little pieces of wood so that they can do some string art, which ties in with their math curriculum. Two for our younger grades we give them sugar cubes and icing and mini trowels so they could become masons to all sorts of different building materials all matched to the grade. So the whole idea is that they're getting materials that are child friendly and approved by the school, but specific to the grade. So in grade six in Ontario they get all electricity equipment, alligator clips and buzzers and, and so on.

Angela Coldwell [: 00:32:54

And then they are able to learn about what it takes to become an electrician.

Andrew Brown [: 00:32:57

Getting it in their hands and showing the teachers are actually wanting to teach a trade is unbelievable. And putting that in front of these kids, I mean that's something, there's a.

Angela Coldwell [: 00:33:07

Lot of interest for it. And I have to say that teachers, it's not ever that teachers didn't want to do. They just didn't know about it and they're not sure where to start. And so again, it goes back to a blind spot, a very innocent blind spot that we have as educators because we haven't had the experience. And so it's why it's so important that it comes turnkey for teachers. And it's always being informed and updated by what we're learning from workforce and from industry partners. Because you always want to make sure that we're staying in lockstep. So if we're talking about a huge need for bricklayers, for example, then we want to make sure that that's something that's always an activity that's in say grade two, which is where it's located in Alberta and Ontario.

Angela Coldwell [: 00:33:43

So we need to make sure that we are always keeping up with what the needs are and also what's changing. Kids are really interested in video gaming, right? They're very interested in using tech, so being able to talk to them about augmented reality. And I was just doing a professional development day with teachers last week and I asked for a show of hands. In the 23 people we were working with, how many knew about Spot the Dog and less than 5 did. So spot's an easy example of a really cool piece of technology used on job sites to autonomously capture data. And really kids would find it really fascinating. We showed an AR screen where you've got your actual job site and then superimposed on that with your iPad, you can see what's going to be built. People don't know outside the industry that this is being used.

Angela Coldwell [: 00:34:23

And for kids who really love Roblox and Minecraft, what a great way to say, you know what, this is a way for you to participate in this industry too. There's a spot for you and here's where we can get you in. So I think it's also finding how kids interests, whether they're fine motor skills, like a tiler, for example, or a painter or someone who likes to game, there is a spot for people. And so we just need to show though we need to make those connections because they're not apparent to individuals who are not in the industry. And even sometimes within the industry, there's such a rapid change that's occurring right now. Not even everyone in the industry is aware. And so it's really about how do we best communicate and take all that knowledge and share it in a way that's really easy to both digest, but also share and transmit to others.

Andrew Brown [: 00:35:04

And kids love games. You said Roblox and I chuckled a little bit because I know my kids play it, but, but the gamification side and sharing that with kids, knowing that the technology is there piques their interest. So they may even get more interested in looking into a trade. But these are great things that at a young age, I think you said somewhere in the 5 to 6 range is kind of the sweet spot. Or they sort of decide of what they're going to do and you want to get them as young as possible to start thinking about working with their hands and introducing this stuff and virtual reality and like actually being or welding or I've done this, the VR and I was climbing a tower and trying to put the power back on, like that's exciting. And for a younger adult who's maybe not thinking about working with the hands and then finally uses the VR and then gets interested. Wow. You know, this is something that maybe I can see myself doing, might change that individual's perspective and might send them down a traits path.

Angela Coldwell [: 00:36:04

Yeah. And there's all sorts of simulators, heavy duty equipment simulators for example. We've got a really cool tech and traits track here that Skills Ontario's made where they can virtually paint all those things are really great opportunities for kids to experience what it could be like, which then gets them excited about, well, what if I was actually doing this as my career path, what would that be like? And ultimately experiential learning is really a game changer for everybody, whether it's adults or whether it's students to do the task and see the end result. And also, you know, you talk to tradespeople, they'll say at the end of the day, when they see what they've created, it's incredibly, it feels very rewarding. And then to go back to a job site and take your family there is years after, decades after, there's such a sense of pride in the craftsmanship that's there as well. And the fact you've known you've done something that's also supporting your community. It's really all of those things that if we can weave in the storytelling the narrative about what your impact can be, showing what connects what kids like now with how that applies to the job really. If we can take a multi kind of disciplinary, kind of global approach to the way in which we're showing these careers, I think it's really important because that's really what our kids want.

Angela Coldwell [: 00:37:07

I think they like to do diy. Our Alpha and Gen Z are all about impact, climate change. They want to have a job that they can grow with and have opportunity. They want to make sure they have a way to give back to their communities. And skilled trades really checks every one of those boxes. I think there's that broader personal impact that you create that I think really resonates with people when they're trying to find where do I belong in the whole career ecosystem?

Andrew Brown [: 00:37:31

Tremendous opportunities in the trades over the next handful of years. I always say it's a lucrative career path that you can do very well and it's just a matter of how much work do you want to put in is what you're going to get out. So if you never met Jordan, would you be in this career path?

Angela Coldwell [: 00:37:48

I think that it was so influential. If I would have been in it, I don't know if I would be as passionate about it. I think that I would have seen a need for it, but it wouldn't have been so deeply personal to me because I had that experience of being able to meet someone that wanted to do this and I didn't see the initial value in it. Unfortunately, it was interview time. So I actually apologized to his parents and I said, I am so sorry your child wants to do this. And I suggested electrical engineering. I feel so much better that I was able to make it right with the student and the parents immediately, but I do not know if I would have the fire to kind of change the perception and try to really make sure that people saw it as equitable to a college or university path. Again, experience, right? Everything comes down to experience.

Angela Coldwell [: 00:38:33

And until you walk in someone else's shoes or you experience it yourself, you don't fully understand it. And so I'm very thankful that he taught me such a valuable lesson because I don't know if I would be trying to create change as quickly and as broadly as what we're trying to do. I owe my huge thank you.

Andrew Brown [: 00:38:51

Well, it's a blessing in disguise. You found the right path and what you're supposed to do now. The Tools of the Trade Angela, this has been an amazing conversation, but before we leave the studio today, what is one of your special tools of the trade advice that you can give other educators or teachers who spot a student who is good with their hands? What can they do to help that student along a trades path in school?

Angela Coldwell [: 00:39:23

I think one of them is exposure to books, even if they don't have the physical copy. But being able to show a read aloud of the House that She Built, for example, or Someone Builds the Dream really shows both of them are beautiful books. They're diverse. And it allows students, no matter what age or culture or gender, to see themselves represented. And I think that's really important. And it opens the door to, well, what else is out there? You know, this is one path you could go down, but here's a whole bunch more, and they're beautifully illustrated. I think the other is having the conversation with the student about what do you enjoy? And this was good advice I received from a welding professor. And the conversation was, do you want to work inside or outside on your own or with a team? Where do you enjoy.

Angela Coldwell [: 00:40:04

What do you enjoy the most when you're outside of your school hours? Do you want to work with your hands? Where do you kind of see your strengths? And kind of just having those conversations of getting to know the student and ultimately saying, well, do you know what? There are career paths for you? And I think also then reaching out to whatever your apprenticeship body is, wherever you live, and asking for, you know, if they have a even a listing or an infographic of. Here are all the trades that are offered that are, you know, in your state or in your local region. Because I think that having that in the classroom, these children, even if they can't read, you can go through it with them. There's a whole listing. And I think that we often don't realize how many trades are out there. In Ontario, there's 144. In Alberta, it's around 50. Every area is a little bit different in terms of what they deem a trade and how many there are.

Angela Coldwell [: 00:40:48

But just having a listing to say, well, hold on, what's a glazer like? Right? You know, like, is it like a donut? Like there's glazing, right? And you start those conversations with the students, and then you learn along the way too. Because ultimately we had a teacher who she has posters based on the house that she built in her classroom. And when she had a speaker come in from Skills, Ontario, which is like skillsusa person said at the end of the session, he's never been in a school where they knew so many traits. And it's because the teacher made it front and center. She had these posters and was talking about them. So being able to have books or a listing, it doesn't have to be anything fancy. Just being able to initiate those conversations and then please repeat them. Don't just do it once, do it often.

Angela Coldwell [: 00:41:28

And that's how we ultimately learn the best as well, too.

Andrew Brown [: 00:41:30

I do love that book, how she built also coloring books. There are coloring books in the trades that Kids can start to get interested and they can read about the different trades, but putting that in front of them and asking them what they want to do. Do you ever consider working with your hands? It just might spark some sort of interest. They might even just be interested in tinkering things. Maybe they're good with Legos. They're just interested in working with their hands. So I think that's a great list to get somebody interested in the trades, especially in school. Where can people find you? Your website, Social media, if they want to find out more resources.

Angela Coldwell [: 00:42:08

So if you're looking for more children's books or if you're looking for free games like on abcya. Honorthework ca we are Canadian so we have a H O N O U r. It's the Canadian spelling of honor honorthework ca and then we are on social media. The best place to find us is on Instagram. We're also on TikTok and Facebook as well and then LinkedIn. We have both Honor the Workca or Angela Coldwell and feel free to reach out. And then on our website we have a whole selection of different programs that are running in our country, broken down by region, so broken down by province or territory, so trying to again find in your local area. Is there a listing of all the organizations you could reach out to either to come in as speakers or take your students to so that you can actually have that industry support coming to your classroom to help link all the things you're learning with your students in class, have them actually link it to.

Angela Coldwell [: 00:42:57

Well, what does the real world look like?

Andrew Brown [: 00:42:58

Angela, it has been great having you on the show today. Thank you so much. Been a pleasure and thank you to our listeners. If you're looking for a dynamic keynote speaker to elevate your next event, head over to andrewbrown.net and review some of my speaking topics. Trade awareness, career exploration, advocacy and addressing the trade shortage. Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast so you never miss another episode. We'll see you next time. Thanks for listening to the Lost Art of the Skilled Trades.

Andrew Brown [: 00:43:30

Visit us@AndrewBrown.net for more resources and tips. Join us next time for real stories and meaningful initiatives as we celebrate our men and women in the skilled trades and shape the future together.